OK.. So.. HOW come..


Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby rockie on September 29th, 2010, 8:08 pm

wren wrote:Looking for clues in names again:

LIVIUS Gender: Masculine Usage: Ancient Roman
Roman family name which may be related to either Latin liveo "to envy" or lividus "blue, envious". (emphasis mine) LIVIUS: Roman family name, possibly derived from Latin lividus, meaning "bluish." (Something is important about the "blue"...many of our surnames meanings have to do with the eyes, and Basha's eyes are silver-blue...although aren't Leo 2's eyes are bronzed-brown?)

LEONIUS Gender: Masculine Usage: Late Roman (Leonius 2 is "lion-like" in his description)
Late Latin name which was derived from Leo/Leon. Meaning "Lion"
LEONIUS: Roman family name derived from Latin leo (gen. leonis), meaning "lion."
BASHA: This name means "foreign", but understandably when applied only in the Greek context, refers to anyone who does not speak Greek. It is a variant of the name "Barbara."

SABIA: Latin form of Irish Gaelic Sadhbh, meaning "sweet."
LUNA: Latin for "the Moon". In Greek mythology, she is the goddess of the moon.

Her long blonde hair & silver-blue eyes screamed "Lissianna" when I first read TIH...that's who the description sounds like to me, which means that either of the Argeneau twins from Atlantis could possibly be her father...or another relative. The family tree doesn't show Jean Claude and Sabia having any children, but it does show Lucian & Wife in Atlantis (wasn't her name revealed later in the books as Luna?) having daughter 1 and daughter 2...no names given. It says they died in fall of Atlantis...but what if one or more didn't, yet Lucian & Jean Claude never knew. We know that Marguerite looks a lot like Sabia, because that was a primary reason why Jean Claude turned her, so it is safe to guess that Sabia was brunette...so we can rule out Basha being her, though Sabia could have been pregnant with Jean Claude's child & escaped from Atlantis & given birth to a daughter that he never knew.

Another thought...we don't know if Lucian & Jean Claude had a sister in Atlantis. There was no 100 year spacing law at that time. The Nottes said that Martine was the Argeneaus only living daughter, but they didn't say she was the only one ever born to them. Both families may think incorrectly that all of Ramses & Alexandria's children perished in the fall. On the other hand, Basha could be a cousin from Atlantis.

Did Leonius 1's room or cell break open, or was he let out and helped to escape...possibly by a family member? Was Leonius 1 related to the Argeneaus? So many questions...

In defense of sin's theory about Jean Claude's second life mate & their baby, some Immortals can develop great strength and cunning very quickly, and though the family tree says that his second life mate was beheaded by Vita Notte, it only confirms that she was pregnant. From Vita's confession in VI, we know she was heavy with child, and we weren't told what happened to the baby. Since Vita rode on & Jean Claude wasn't home yet, someone could have come along and found the baby still alive right after it happened. As far as gaining strength,the Notte parents said that if the 3-on-1 hadn't been performed on Marguerite, Jean Claude would not have been able to control Marguerite eventually...possibly another reason he kept her home-bound, so that others wouldn't suspect anything unusual...and another reason he loathed himself. Though Leo 2 is strong and able to control others, his impulsiveness & insanity could possibly be guided or even controlled by a sane Immortal, especially if they are feeding him plans to meet an agenda that serves them both.

Because Ramses, Alexandria, Lucian, and Jean Claude escaped during the fall, and still ended up together on the other side of the mountains, I've always thought they were possibly at a clinic getting their needed blood when the earthquake & volcano eruption happened. They had to be somewhere away from the rest of their families. If any of their young children escaped & was caught by Leonius 1 and crew, she could have been raised by them and probably told that her family left her behind on purpose and the trauma of the fall could have been enough for her to learn to hate them.

Lynsay, you have been eating duck lately...so please squawk!! Do ducks squawk? I bet they do if you squeeze them. Either way...quack or squawk...just spill a hint or two, please! :lol: :D


Oh wow Wren that was some major thinking!! I really think that you might have hit the head on it! I mean She could be related!! Time will only tell!!

But LYNSAY you could squawk a little bit!! I mean really a hit or three wont hurt anything!!!!
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Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby MsKitty on October 11th, 2010, 5:16 am

sin wrote:Welcome back KittyKat

Yes the mother decides if the child will be: mortal, immortal, fanged or not. I do believe I read it that Leo II chose both mortal & immortals to bear his offspring.

No he may NOT be the sharpest in the bunch BUT the most devious. He has had a lot of centuries to plan. That is a lot of hate built up for the wrong he feel that has happened to his family.

Ernie may have named himself, his mother may have named him or the others may also have a name besides a number.

next I have my own theories on Basha. I still say she is the daughter of Jean Claude & his life mate. Also that is one of her reasons for going after Lucian, family & enforcers. Therefore the two working together...

Just my 0.02



Hang on... just back the bus up there... I thought that immortals had a very low chance of impregnating a mortal.. Didn't Lucien attempt to explain that to Kate when she was insisting on condoms, she was concerned about falling pregnant??
& if the fangs come from the mother.. then it would be a mortal male trying to impregnate a immortal female? Is there something about mortal & immortals chances of causing a pregnacy that we've perhaps missed??
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Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby Lynsay on October 11th, 2010, 1:11 pm

Low but not impossible, MsKitty. Actually, I don't think it's as low as Lucern thought. I think he was influenced by his...er...interests at the time. And possibly just ignorance. I mean he hadn't been interested in sex in a looooong time before Kate and heck, way back when he was interested they didn't have a clue about anatomy and biology and such. If a woman he'd slept with got pregnant and popped out a baby without fangs, they would have just assumed it wasn't theirs. I doubt he's bothered to find out the particulars of it all since then since he hasn't been interested in it. For all he knows he had mortal bastards all over the place back in the 15th century when he was sexually active.

As for the "if the fangs come from the mother...then it would be a mortal male trying to impregnate a immortal female?" It could be a no-fanger too or even an immortal. But it really has nothing to do with them trying. Pregnancy depends on the immortal female doubling up on blood to prevent the nanos from aborting the fetus as a parasite. She will not get pregnant without that, so they can't have accidental pregnancies. The child takes on the mother's blood, which is why if she is immortal, it will be, if she is no-fanger it will be, if she is mortal, it will be. Nanos are not passed with sperm. The nanos avoid residing in any fluid that naturally leaves the body

Lynsay, who woke up sick as a dog today. UGH. Terri passed on her cold. Sigh
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Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby sherr on October 11th, 2010, 3:04 pm

Get better Lynsay :(
good girls don't make history and I plan on being very historical
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Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby Jewelz on October 11th, 2010, 6:53 pm

Wow, thats a lot of theories guys. I think I need to re-read REN. I've only read it once. I'll have to get back to this thread later.
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Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby MsKitty on October 12th, 2010, 4:56 am

Lynsay wrote:Low but not impossible, MsKitty. Actually, I don't think it's as low as Lucern thought. I think he was influenced by his...er...interests at the time. And possibly just ignorance. I mean he hadn't been interested in sex in a looooong time before Kate and heck, way back when he was interested they didn't have a clue about anatomy and biology and such. If a woman he'd slept with got pregnant and popped out a baby without fangs, they would have just assumed it wasn't theirs. I doubt he's bothered to find out the particulars of it all since then since he hasn't been interested in it. For all he knows he had mortal bastards all over the place back in the 15th century when he was sexually active.

As for the "if the fangs come from the mother...then it would be a mortal male trying to impregnate a immortal female?" It could be a no-fanger too or even an immortal. But it really has nothing to do with them trying. Pregnancy depends on the immortal female doubling up on blood to prevent the nanos from aborting the fetus as a parasite. She will not get pregnant without that, so they can't have accidental pregnancies. The child takes on the mother's blood, which is why if she is immortal, it will be, if she is no-fanger it will be, if she is mortal, it will be. Nanos are not passed with sperm. The nanos avoid residing in any fluid that naturally leaves the body

Lynsay, who woke up sick as a dog today. UGH. Terri passed on her cold. Sigh


Hope you're feeling better soon Lynsay xx
So... then WHY would Leonius try to impregnate MORTAL women?? Is he.. well.. A mortal woman will give birth to a mortal child... then is Leonius giving the MORTAL child Basha' s blood? Is that why Stinky Ernie has Fangs? I still think it's odd that he refered to Leonius as 'Dad' but the other sons were no-fangers.
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Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby wren on October 12th, 2010, 6:58 am

MsKitty wrote:
Lynsay wrote:As for the "if the fangs come from the mother...then it would be a mortal male trying to impregnate a immortal female?" It could be a no-fanger too or even an immortal. But it really has nothing to do with them trying. Pregnancy depends on the immortal female doubling up on blood to prevent the nanos from aborting the fetus as a parasite. She will not get pregnant without that, so they can't have accidental pregnancies. The child takes on the mother's blood, which is why if she is immortal, it will be, if she is no-fanger it will be, if she is mortal, it will be. Nanos are not passed with sperm. The nanos avoid residing in any fluid that naturally leaves the body

Lynsay, who woke up sick as a dog today. UGH. Terri passed on her cold. Sigh


Hope you're feeling better soon Lynsay xx
So... then WHY would Leonius try to impregnate MORTAL women?? Is he.. well.. A mortal woman will give birth to a mortal child... then is Leonius giving the MORTAL child Basha' s blood? Is that why Stinky Ernie has Fangs? I still think it's odd that he refered to Leonius as 'Dad' but the other sons were no-fangers.


MsKitty, I think Ernie was born Immortal, and that's why he had fangs, and if so, his mother had to have been an Immortal. Leo wants an army of sons & wants revenge for his father's death. His mother had to have told him what happened for him to know his history. He wants sons, mainly no-fangers, but it seems there could be situations where mortals & Immortals could serve him well...and if they are like Ernie, he just browbeats inferiority into them through his environment, especially if he has them from the time they are babies. Even though Ernie was Immortal & had fangs, his father & no-fanger brothers made him feel inferior. That is why he was trying to capture Dani & Stephanie, and then eventually Jo when he realized that she was Nicholas' life mate...he was trying to impress his father & show him he was as good as his no-fanger brothers...although I don't think it would have worked even if he would have succeeded. As for Basha, I doubt Leo 2 can make her do anything she doesn't want to do, so if she is giving blood to turn mortals, it's by her choice for her own purposes! Leo 2 is insane but very cunning, yet Basha is strong and sane & seems to have some ability to manipulate Leo 2 so that he will listen to her, which means she is very smart & perhaps equally cunning. Remember that Dee, Ernie's mortal pet in REN, was in awe of Basha & said that even Ernie's dad listened to her. That (& her broken brain from the torture) was why she wanted to be like Basha, until the council did a three-on-one & helped return her to the mortal world.


Question for Lynsay: Can't a no-fanger mother have an edentate child...a sane Immortal with no fangs, a stillborn baby, or an insane no-fanger? Wouldn't a no-fanger mother have the same 3-in-1 chance as an edentate mother on how the baby will turn out?
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Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby cgsdesigns on October 12th, 2010, 11:08 pm

Can't a no-fanger mother have an edentate child...a sane Immortal with no fangs, a stillborn baby, or an insane no-fanger? Wouldn't a no-fanger mother have the same 3-in-1 chance as an edentate mother on how the baby will turn out?


What kinda bugs me (not to the point of dispair yet)...

Leo 2 was supposedly going out to create a no-fanger army of all his sons.

If the mothers determine the outcome of the baby.... fanged, no-fanged or endentate, or finally mortal...

(and didn't Dani worry about if she had any children that they may be born a no-fanger or even die and Decker told her that Bastien was working on that problem?)

(and we know Lucian and crew killed off all of Leo 1 and his brood except Leo 2 who they do not know how they missed him so I assume (yes it will probably make an assu out of me.) that the mother of Leo 2 was probably carrying him around in her belly at the time. But that leads me back to kinda what bothers me....


The mother determines the outcome but we are told that there was only 2 living no-fangers who escaped Atlantis when it fell. How are all of these no-fangers being created? We know that Leo 2 can turn an endentate as well as no fangers and dead babies so he would have to be changing a lot of women in order to have the brood-mares so to call them so that he could have all his sons. That's a lot of women being changed. I think since the council has been aware of any misdoings among the immortal world. I would assume (there I go again, gotta take stock in a toilet paper company I guess) that they would also be well aware of the going ons in the no-fanger and endentate world as well. Wouldn't they have taken Leo 2 and his brood as soon as they learned of him? And how did the council miss them then?

Lynsay you have some 'explainin' to do??

Don't I do an excellent Dezi Arnez?

Come on now you really don't want us to either turn no-fanger or totally insane trying to figure this one out???
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Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby Lynsay on October 13th, 2010, 1:59 am

Okay, well there were a lot of points I wanted to address, but by the time I got to the end I can't remember them all. Sigh. Probably the fever. Anyway, only immortals (which includes no-fangers and edentates) survived the fall of atlantis. If they didn't survive, they usually weren't immortal although one or two immortals didn't survive, the majority did. No non-immortals did.

Er...Poop. Can't remember what else I was gonna say. Sigh

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Re: OK.. So.. HOW come..

Postby MsKitty on October 13th, 2010, 4:45 am

Oh Lynsay :(

Chicken noodle soup cures everything & add extra chicken stock cubes (cause we likes it salty ;) )

Really hope you're feeling better soon, look after yourself & I hope Terri is better too xx
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