G.G.

Talk about the Argeneau family members and what makes them so real.

Re: G.G.

Postby Lynsay on November 9th, 2010, 1:10 pm

Salt ink Rawr? I'm not sure that would make a difference. Guess you have to explain more.

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Re: G.G.

Postby Rawr on November 10th, 2010, 11:30 am

Lynsay wrote:Salt ink Rawr? I'm not sure that would make a difference. Guess you have to explain more.

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Salt is natural to the body and if say the skin is marked/cut/scraped while immersed in salt even if repairing the body it will still leave a scar. I've seen it used in the black dagger brotherhood series and another series i believe. Think of mummification. Salt keeps mummified bodies preserved so that's why i think salt in ink on your immortals the nanos would not think the salt ink foreign. I mean If Mirabeau can keep her dyed hair than why not salt ink tattoos?
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Re: G.G.

Postby wren on November 12th, 2010, 12:54 am

We are talking totally different types of "vampires," Lynsay & RAWR, and salted water or salted ink would not work with the premise of the Argeneau series.

J.R. Ward's BDB vampires were created by the the Scribe Virgin, a mystical force who is counselor to the king as well as the keeper of vampire archives and the dispenser of privileges, she was capable of a single act of creation, which she expended to bring the vampires into existence. She is like a goddess to them. The vampires are not human, nor have they ever been. They live a long time, sometimes up to a thousand years, but they are not Immortals. "(*vampire (n) Member of a species separate from that of Homo sapiens. Vam­pires must drink the blood of the opposite sex to survive. Human blood will keep them alive, though the strength does not last long. Following their transitions, which occur in their mid-twenties, they are unable to go out into sunlight and must feed from the vein regularly. Vampires cannot “convert” humans through a bite or transfer of blood, though they are in rare cases able to breed with the other species. Vampires can dematerial­ize at will, though they must be able to calm themselves and concentrate to do so and may not carry anything heavy with them. They are able to strip the memories of humans, provided such memories are short-term. Some vampires are able to read minds. Life expectancy is upward of a thousand years, or in some cases even longer. glossary - jrward.com)"

Though they can pass in human society, vampires bodies are different on the inside (for example, they have a six-chambered heart) which is one reason they avoid being taken to human doctors and hospitals. They keep themselves a secret for protection of the vampire race. Full vampires cannot go out in the sunlight, but some who are born to vampires who mate with humans can do so. The males have a bonding scent that releases when they identify their mate, and they become very territorial. A big part of their ancient mating ritual (think of it like their "marriage ceremony") is to carve the female's name into the male's back in the style of the letters of their old language, then put salt water on it before it heals. When it heals, the name will be remain permanently on the male's back. Depending on their wounds, they usually heal quickly, but putting salt in water or ink will cause any wounds to heal as a scar on their bodies. That is the reason they can be tattooed. It is the salt in the liquids that will cause the vampires bodies to scar or hold the tattoo ink in the skin. We know the salt is the ingredient that is the key from the servants putting it in the water for the mating ceremonies, and from Z's & Phury''s experience when they had to escape and fell into the salt-water of the ocean. Without the salt, vampires would usually heal easily from most wounds, except for those that are life-threatening to them. They can die in many more ways than the Immortals, and the main purpose of the Black Dagger Brotherhood and the younger vampires they are training is to save the Vampire race from the evil Lessening Society, an army of de-souled human slayers of the Omega, a mystical being who resents the Scribe Virgin and does not have the power of creation.

A major difference between J.R. Ward's Vampires of the BDB series and Lynsay's Immortals of the Argeneau series is that the BDB vampires don't have the "nanos." The people from Atlantis are still human and always have been. The Immortals are humans that had the nanos injected into their bloodstream to heal illness, or are humans that are descended from those who originally had the nanos given to them. With the fall of Atlantis, the nanos evolved the humans into the Immortals...who are still humans with superhuman strengths...so that they had a way to obtain the blood needed to keep the nanos alive. The nanos are like benign parasites. They do whatever is best to keep their hosts in peak condition, partly because of the original design, which was to heal any illness, and partly so that the nanos will not be destroyed. Since the human body is always aging or being damaged from sunlight or in other ways, the nanos use more blood than originally expected...after all, they were supposed to disintegrate after making the repairs to the body that were needed. Instead, the nanos went to work on other parts of the body that had damage, which was handled sufficiently in Atlantis with blood transfusions. Atlantis was an isolated civilization that was far advanced scientifically and in other disciplines. Because the people of Atlantis kept themselves isolated from those on the other side of the mountains from them, everyone else forgot they were there, and their civilization simply became the stuff of legends. Those Immortals who escaped during the Fall were totally surprised by the primitive conditions in which they found themselves. At the time, the nanos would first have attacked the organs of their bodies looking for more blood, and when they couldn't obtain enough blood for the hosts to survive that way, the nanos adapted the bodies of the Immortals to give them the fangs and other needed "vampire skills" to survive, because the nanos needed the blood to replicate and survive. Even now, when the nanos are short of blood, they still seek it in the organs of the body first. Skin is an organ! Any cuts, even sealed with salt water or salted ink, would be healed by the nanos, since they would see it as damage to an organ of the body. In Love Bites, Rachel was amazed when she was doing the "autopsy" because she could not find any scars anywhere on Etienne, and as seen recently in Born To Bite, when an Immortal is burned, they will heal without scarring unless they are literally burned to death, one of the three ways they can actually die.

I gave the background information and compared the two series Vampires & Immortals characteristics because Lynsay and other forum members may not be familiar with the Black Dagger Brotherhood premise. Lynsay often reads books that are not part of the romance genres when she actually gets a chance to read, since she writes in those various romance fields. I don't know why the salt water/salt ink works on the BDB vampires, but it was established in the very first book that it does...and is one area where J.R. Ward has been consistent. 8-) There...I even picked a smilie that is wearing her trademark "sunglasses." RAWR, I'm not a huge fan of J.R. Ward's writing (mainly due to the language & hard-core scenes) & the BDB series, even though I like many of the characters and think in general it could be a great storyline. I just don't think she has always been consistent with the world she created, especially with V's & Phury's books...which is a major pet peeve for me as a reader! :( She does seem to be on track again with the latest books & I did try to be fair in analyzing if the salt ink would work for our Immortals. ;)

I can't see any way that the salt ink would work with the Argeneau Immortals & their nanos, since it would not fit the "rules" of the Immortal world that Lynsay has established with the original scientific premise...and she has been very consistent about what the nanos do & don't do...it simply wouldn't be genuine to the series. My dear frog prince has a very nice tattoo from his navy days :) but our Immortals could swim in the saltiest ocean for hours after having a huge tattoo inked on their body, and the nanos would still heal it perfectly! :D
Last edited by wren on November 15th, 2010, 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: G.G.

Postby wren on November 14th, 2010, 4:51 am

Rawr wrote:
Lynsay wrote:Salt ink Rawr? I'm not sure that would make a difference. Guess you have to explain more.
Lynsay


Salt is natural to the body and if say the skin is marked/cut/scraped while immersed in salt even if repairing the body it will still leave a scar. I've seen it used in the black dagger brotherhood series and another series i believe. Think of mummification. Salt keeps mummified bodies preserved so that's why i think salt in ink on your immortals the nanos would not think the salt ink foreign. I mean If Mirabeau can keep her dyed hair than why not salt ink tattoos?



Hi Rawr! First day I've been able to get back in the forum...first I was sick, then the website was down & I couldn't log on...anyways...

Very simplified... Mirabeau and Eshe can keep their dyed hair tips because the only part of the hair that is growing is up from the root through the hair follicle. Tiny blood vessels at the base of every follicle feed the hair root to keep it growing. But once the hair is at the skin's surface, the cells within the strand of hair aren't alive anymore. The hair you see on every part of your body contains dead cells. That's why it doesn't cause pain when someone cuts your hair with scissors. The ladies can wear nail polish for the same reason...the nail covers the nail bed on our fingers, but grows from the deep root hidden under the cuticle. When cells at the root of the nail grow, the new nail cells push out the old nail cells. These old cells flatten and harden, thanks to keratin, a protein made by these cells. The newly formed nail then slides along the nail bed, the flat surface under your nails. The nail bed sits on top of tiny blood vessels that feed it and give your nails their pink color. Neither the hair dyes nor the nail polish are on live cells of the body, so the nanos "don't object" for lack of a better way to explain. :lol:

Skin is the largest organ of the body. When an immortal has gone too long without feeding, the nanos go into the organs of the body in search of blood. There are many tiny blood vessels in the second layer of our skin. A scar is a mark left on your skin from a cut or wound that has healed. You're most likely to get a scar if there is a lot of damage to the skin or the edges of a cut are too far apart to heal properly. The nanos don't allow that to happen with scrapes, cuts, bullets, or burns. They will try to push anything out of the body that doesn't belong there. They begin the healing process immediately. Immortals have to literally be burned up to die by fire. Any other burns heal without scarring. A tattoo artist wouldn't even have time to finish a tattoo before the first part would be healed, and piercings would be pushed out quickly...just like a bullet or other object lodged in the body. Salt in the ink will not matter for Lynsay's Immortals. It goes against the very premise of the bio-engineered nano-technology and what the nanos were programmed to do. They will see the salted ink as a foreign substance in an organ of the body...not really any different than seeing a skin cancer. To the nanos, they are one & the same. The Argeneau series is based on a real life scientific concept. Medical bio-engineering & nano-technology is being researched now for use in a similar way to what Lynsay described happening in Atlantis. She has been told by people in the medical field that she isn't far off in what they are trying to accomplish. 8-)

Personally, I like the Immortals as they are with their perfect skin and peak conditions. I like how the premise of the series is based in science to make it genuine and believable. I don't want Lynsay to change her Immortals to be like those in other series. I'd like to see how G.G. accommodates himself to being an Immortal while losing "his style" when Marguerite finds him a life mate. I have no doubt that she will. ;)

Using the salted ink to tattoo the Immortals could even be a form of plagiarism. I've never heard of or read about it in traditional vampire lore that is in the public domain and open to everybody. I have read it in the rituals of the Black Dagger Brotherhood by J.R.Ward, and it's a part of her vampire world. Her vampires get the tattoos and the names of their mates put on their backs for a purpose rather than as body art, so it's actually a part of the premise of the BDB series, which is copyrighted. To avoid inadvertently borrowing other authors ideas, Lynsay doesn't read very many romance books, especially historicals or vampire paranormals, and she is very careful about our posts on the forum regarding other authors work.

Alas...I'm wordy as usual (Sorry Lyns! Just add whatever I forgot to say for you! :oops: :? :lol: :) ) & it's time to get a little sleep!

Happy Sunday! :D "See" you later! ♥ wren
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Re: G.G.

Postby Rawr on November 14th, 2010, 10:09 am

Well, Wren what can I say, I had to give it a try. I love my tattoos and would be very unhappy if all that money and time and thoughts just disappeared. Although G.G. can keep his hair(yay) and piercings if he just doesn't take them out or doesn't mind getting some redone on occasion. Hee. There are some very convincing temporary tattoos out there maybe if G.G. kept his job he could wear some sleeves, or very nice temp tats. I actually know of some that last for a while and look very nice. Special Effects is a hobby of mine since I went into Zombie Pinup modeling and i've been a fan of all types of tats; real, temp, cloth, henna(notice how i didn't mention henna as a possibility since the ink is absorbed into the skin i guess it would be considered a foreign object. See i can be sciency. I am in a sci-fi club after all. :ugeek: I'm just more a mythology kinda girl.) :( Now if lynsay's vampires were un-scientific and magic existed: Magical Tattoos! Lol :lol: I understand not plagiarizing though. I just really wanted to see G.G. keep them. I guess giving those up would be an interesting sacrifice though. Perhaps he could take pics of the tats and piercings before his change if he had a choice? Perhaps have some as art photography piece. Now you see some people see punks and goths with tats, piercings and unique hairstyles as scary but, when I moved to chicago those "scary" people watched over me, befriended me and were sweeter than apple pie. You know my friends I play pool with every week at a punk bar called Delilah's were the "only" ones who came to my bday party last year? They're tall and tattooed and some look intimidating but, they brought me presents and the biker bar owner even gave me a $100 to help me with my rent. I love these people and reading about someone who is (a. my ideal man seriously and (b. reminds me of Ollie my friend. Just makes me super happy.

-Rawr who is doing a silly rant again when she should be sleeping. :oops:
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Re: G.G.

Postby Lynsay on November 14th, 2010, 12:10 pm

LOL. Well it looks like you two solved it all. But basically Wren's right. I was kind of taken aback when you said it had been solved in another series, Rachel, because I haven't read BDB or whatever and for a minute I worried she had a similar source base to mine (ie nanos, atlantis, etc.). I stay away from reading vamps to avoid accidentally using other people's ideas. Well, except horrors. I'll read J. F Lewis's series, Staked and Revamped. And I've been reading another series online, can't remember the author's name at the moment. One of the stories was Vampire moon though, I think. Anyway, the simple fact is while immortals can dye their hair and wear nail polish, for all the reasons Wren stated, tatoos wouldn't take. They can wear temporaries because it doesn't pierce the skin. Drop them in mud and they'll be muddy until they bathe, the nanos won't remove it. Paint their faces or even their body with body paint and they would have to wash it off. But tatoos, piercings and wounds will be eradicated pretty quickly...well, unless they leave the piercings in. Nanos can push bullets out by knitting skin, but a piercing that goes through and comes out the other side can't be pushed out by knitting skin. And large items like stakes can't be forced out which is why if a stake is left in long enough in the heart, the immortal would die.

Anyway, enough of this. I have to see what all i missed while the forum was being such a pain. Problem is, it's only showing five new posts and I know the first time I got on yesterday, I saw that there were a ton of them...course then I immediately got bounced. Rolling eyes.

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Re: G.G.

Postby jill on November 14th, 2010, 1:04 pm

For some reason I always pictured him as a red head.
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Re: G.G.

Postby susan60625 on November 14th, 2010, 1:20 pm

You know, Rawr, I just saw on the news the other day that they are now offering temporary tattoos that are made of pure gold! They said it was pretty expensive, but it really did look great!
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Re: G.G.

Postby wren on November 14th, 2010, 6:26 pm

Oh, Rawr, I love fantasy & magic & mythology & sci-fi and all the stuff of legends, too! 8-)

Lynsay took a little bit of legend & mythology and mixed it with some science to create her Immortal world. As a result, a group of people who were originally from a land that was considered a myth developed the characteristics of vampires and now have to deal with the good & bad (there are some limitations, they can get bored & lonely, etc.) that came from those events. One of the limitations is that they can't get permanent tattoos. :( Lynsay set up the boundaries early in the series of what the nanos do, and she has been a master of consistency. Even as we get additional knowledge through the series, it doesn't change the original premise & boundaries, and any new information on the nanos has always agreed with what had been revealed previously.

I read all kinds of books that mix fantasy & sci-fi and I like to see the various worlds an author creates. I'm just picky about them staying true to their own rules. Image In paranormal/fantasy/sci-fi writing, an author has to work even harder to keep their work genuine. If they don't, readers will have a hard time finding a book believable, and they'll lose their audience. I'm a huge Harry Potter fan, and in an interview on writing the Harry Potter books, J.K. Rowling said that when she was determining what magic could & couldn't do, she decided that it could not bring someone back from the dead. Once they died, that was it, and there were no spells or anything else magical that could bring them back. She had to work out the boundaries of the magic in the series to keep it consistent as she was writing it. As a reader, that makes sense to me. :)

It's nice to know that G.G. can keep any piercings that are pushed all the way through. Until Lynsay posted, I didn't know those would stay. I learn new things all the time on this forum, and I was pulling from the books and three years of being on Lynsay's forum in my long-winded explanations to you. I'm guessing G.G. could also keep his green mohawk, since he can still cut and dye his hair. You know, we both love what we have seen of G.G. so far and we both love Etienne. We have much more in common here than it may seem at first glance! ;)

Body art is very popular right now with tattoos & piercings. Many of our friends & lots of people in our family have tattoos and/or multiple piercings, and I hope you don't feel I was judging anyone by their preferences. I was simply talking about the premises of the various paranormal series and how that works as far as the characters are concerned, especially in regards to the nanos and Lynsay's Immortals.

I read the BDB series until recently. J.R. Ward's version of vampires and their rituals & traditions and the paranormal world she created in that series are really interesting. I have various reasons why I've stopped reading them, but it has nothing to do with the basic premise of the series. :)
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Re: G.G.

Postby rockie on November 14th, 2010, 8:40 pm

wren wrote:Body art is very popular right now with tattoos & piercings. Many of our friends & lots of people in our family have tattoos and/or multiple piercings, and I hope you don't feel I was judging anyone by their preferences. I was simply talking about the premises of the various paranormal series and how that works as far as the characters are concerned, especially in regards to the nanos and Lynsay's Immortals.



Ahaha! I can tell you this.. there was no judging from Wren! Trust me on this for I have several tattoos and she loves me just way I am!
Although If I had nanos then I would be mad if I lost all of my tattoos! I mean I put a bunch of money into my tattoos! We are working on about 500 or more! I would think!
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