A few thoughts & questtions.

Talk about the stories that got the Argeneaus where they are today.

Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby susan60625 on September 24th, 2012, 6:42 pm

Welcome Bob!

First let me say that it is good to see a male (I hope!) here on the forum. Take heart that you aren't the first! Thomas checks in frequently and is an avid poster here!

I'm glad to see you jumping right in with your opinions! We are always eager to have new blood give us a different perspective on the books. I'll get back to that in a minute.

As a new member on the forum, you will first of all notice that your id is in green. That indicates your "new" status. The only restriction is that as a new member your first twenty or so postings have to moderated by the Power That Be, namely Lynsay, herself, or her sister/assitant, Terri! This, unfortunately, can sometimes take some time to happen. If they are out-of-town or experiencing computer problems, there will be a delay. Most of the time, all postings will be put through. They are mainly trying to screen out spammers and advertisers! As long as you don't do that, you should be golden! After the 20 or so postings, you will be "turned!" Unlike in the books, it is really quite painless. In fact, you should only notice that your id is now Dark Blue!

There are really only a few rules here. First and foremost, be nice. Everyone here likes and respects everyone else here. Therefore, no discussions of politics or religion.

The other main rule is No Fan Fiction! This one is absolutely the most important. For legal reasons, Lynsay cannot read any of our fan fiction and since she loves dropping in and posting regularly, if she is constantly running into fan fiction, she will stop! We do allow speculating on story lines but only in marked discussion threads. Sometimes Lynsay will drop exclusive clues regarding upcoming books and you should see the feeding frenzy that can cause!

A benefit of being on the forum is that we do get these exclusive tidbits, plus we have exclusive contests. If you haven't already done so, go back to Lynsay's website and sign up for her newsletter. With that you usually get access to other contests and updates on her upcoming books!

Another thing we like to ask new members is that you go into the "Getting to Know You" category and answer the Getting to Know You questions and the Quirky questions. This is not a requirement but it is a good way for everyone to get to know you, plus you can go back and check out the answers that the rest of us gave!

Now, back to your comments. The issue I want to address is the one about the have and have-nots getting the nanos. If you'll remember, the nanos weren't given on a class basis. They were being tested and they were testing them on Atlantians that were seriously ill and dying. They didn't know about the side effect of the needing more blood until after they had been administered. They then stopped giving them out and were working on fixing that problem when Atlantis fell.
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Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby sin on October 4th, 2012, 1:07 pm

Welcome Bob. Sue has covered most of the rules for you here in her "short" post. Luv ya sis..

Now...Yes the Nano's were invented for medical purposes. It did NOT matter what you class, sex etc was. When they failure (which they did) they tried to improve. It is my understanding that it was shortly after they "improved" the nanos that Atlantis fell.

It is not the "parents" who decide if the child is mortal or immortal. The nano gene is carried & passed by the MOTHER. Lucern has stated that it is possible to a mortal & immortal to have children.

I believe it was VAF that Thomas said how the people reacted to this.

We love to speculate and theorize Lynsay's books. (under the appropriate topics of course :) ) And we like hearing for the male point of view.

We also have to remember these books are for entertainment. Yes there may be some facts in them, but we do not delve into the semantics of them. As some of us have told our resident "windbag" (which he named himself..hi Tom.. :-P ) Some of us do not come here for a history or science lecture. Sorry if that sounds crass but we get enough of this in the "real world" (mostly from our spouse like wren and myself)

But please continue your thoughts and ideas. If you look through previous posts you will see some of us do get very heated at times, but it is all in fun.
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Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby TomEC on October 5th, 2012, 3:13 pm

Hi Bob.
Welcome to our little forum.

Sin has it right, I am a card carrying windbag. I will examine everything to death and that's not for everyone.

I really enjoyed your post. You're a thinker and that's just fine with me.

I think the scenario you laid out is possible but there are some other considerations. For one thing, there's no reason to believe what happened in the experiments with the nanos was public knowledge in Atlantis. If I had been involved with that project, I would have understood instantly why this would need to be kept top secret for the very reason immortals keep there existence secret in our time. Also, we needn't imagine that Atlantis had a society exactly like ours. After all, this was highly technical civilization sitting in the middle of, well, the Bronze Age. Obviously they were very good at keeping secrets and a society that could keep secrets from the outside world could, no doubt, also keep secrets from its own people. Also, when the disaster struck they were on their second generation of nanos. Who's to say they wouldn't have developed a more energy efficient model that would've made it possible for everyone to receive them. Or perhaps, in time, they may have developed a form of artificial blood or serum that would've made it possible for them to get by without having to "milk" the population. Given the technological level of the place, and what they've done already, such developments not only seem possible to me but probable.

I think you're right, though, about the basic unfairness of some people having nanos while others don't. This would be explosive if everyone knew about it. I think Lynsay mentioned from time to time in some of her books about how guilty some immortals felt about it. But, of course, the universe is not a fair place and the immortals can do nothing to change that. Spreading the nanos around is not an option.

Really. there are endless possibilities for how things could have gone. And it sure is fun to speculate. At least, I think so.

I'll be looking forward to your next post, Bob.
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Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby Denise on October 7th, 2012, 12:21 am

Welcome, Bob. I hadn't ever thought of it that way, before. Now that I consider it a little, I would think that, if the nanos had not been kept secret, something very like what you describe would have happened. I see as a possibility, if Atlantis hadn't fallen, the immortals kicked out and forced to go out into the world, leaving behind their advanced civilization.

Interesting thoughts. Who knows what might have happened. People surprise me all the time with their responses. I think it's a no-brainer for a certain response, and get floored when I see something entirely different happen.
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Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby wren on October 7th, 2012, 1:18 am

I tend to disagree. :shock: Atlantis was an isolated, advanced society. They already had blood banks and transfusions. An advanced, educated society would have been more likely to encourage the research be continued and refined, so that it could ultimately have helped everyone. Think what people will do today to try to find cures for their loved ones. After all, the initial nanos were far more imperfect than the nanos given to Ramses and Alexandria. The original nanos trials had a one in three chance of survival, insanity, or death. It was from those who survived but went insane that Leonius I, the No-Fangers, and the Edentates originated after the fall of Atlantis.

In many respects, the nanos were a scientific experiment gone awry. Instead of leaving the body as the scientists had planned, the nanos became a parasite on their host. The medical scientists had not expected the nanos to continue using more blood than a human could produce or to keep someone in peak condition. The nanos were originally designed to leave the body after taking care of the severe injury or illness for which they were injected, but to the nanos, aging or normal environmental aspects of life were "seen" as illness. Those "infected" with the nanos, as Lucian put it in BMIYC when explaining to Leigh about the Immortals, didn't have fangs or treat others like dairy cows. They didn't even see those who gave blood, because it was voluntary as blood donors do today.

I doubt that the Immortals would have been kicked out of Atlantis. When it fell, they found themselves in a primitive world, and it was because they had never crossed the mountains. The one area they weren't knowledgeable about was the world outside of Atlantis. Ancient treaties were in place that had caused their isolation, and would have made kicking the Immortals out of Atlantis dangerous to the society as a whole. The Immortals who survived the fall were very shocked to find that the world on the other side of the mountains had not advanced like their own country did. If not for their isolation, the outside world would have had some of the same advancements and knowledge that the Atlanteans had acquired, and the nanos would not have needed to evolve the fangs and special abilities that allowed their hosts to survive...but then we wouldn't have these wonderful stories. ;)

One other point: The Immortal laws went into place when Leo I began breeding indiscriminately and growing his army, and didn't care if mortals knew about them. The sane Immortals, even some who would later go rogue after many long centuries of living (Jean Claude and Morgan), realized the harm that would come to mortals and themselves if they outgrew their food source or were exposed with their special abilities. Lucius and the North American council are notified when a new turn happens, and the European council is similar. (AQB, ABTR, and various clarification about the councils and laws throughout the books or through Lynsay's posts on this forum) The only law that has some leeway between the way things are done between the Old & New Worlds is the "biting" law. Biting is allowed only in emergencies in North America, so every Immortal child or new turn is trained, both for survival and protection. Some of the "ancients" in Europe prefer the old ways, so they're more lenient about the biting law, but they do train children and new turns for the same reasons. Lynsay has also stated that there are Immortals on every continent, but the Immortals police themselves on population. Enforcing the three Immortal laws is why the Councils and the Rogue Hunters exist. Sharing ABB's blood supplies with mortals & protecting mortals from rogue vampires is one way the Immortals try to give back to the society in which they live now. :)
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Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby sin on October 7th, 2012, 9:20 am

Thanks you wren. Also as to the "biting rule" in North America it also is acceptable for those who have a genetic disorder like Victor & Vincent who can not survive on bagged blood.
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Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby sin on October 7th, 2012, 10:57 am

Perhaps we will know the answer to this question and many, many more we have asked when Alexandria & Ramses story is told. Several of us have been asking for this story for a long time :) Until then we just have to sit back and see if our gracious author decides to answer your question. :lol:
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Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby wren on October 7th, 2012, 5:21 pm

robke wrote:Atlantis may have already been using blood banks before the nanos came into the picture but when that happened I believe that the dynamics changed because now they had a much greater need for blood donations then they normally would. It was no longer just about having the blood available to treat those who were injured or ill it was also about having blood available to feed the ones who were treated with the nanos making the need for regular blood donations by those not I hate to say infected by the nanos that much greater.
Now unless I am mistaken they did not have any rules in regards of how many or how often those treated with the nanos could have children thus greatly increasing the demands on their available blood supply and the donors who provided it. How long would they have be able to meet the need for donors on a strictly voluntary basis?

Bob


Well, it really doesn't matter. The need to have the laws in place became evident after Atlantis fell.
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Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby TomEC on October 7th, 2012, 5:41 pm

I think you all make good points. I think if the conditions you describe, Bob, came to pass in Atlantis, you are probably correct about where it would lead. There are so many possibilities and they sure are fun to speculate about and debate. Of course, the one with the final word on this is Lynsay since this version of Atlantis comes from her imagination and she really hasn't given us enough information about conditions back then for us to come to any real conclusions.
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Re: A few thoughts & questtions.

Postby sin on October 7th, 2012, 5:46 pm

Seriously? Image
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